The Wisconsin Geocaching Association

  Login or Register

Website Navigation

62.png Home

49.png Information Center
26.png WGA Newsletters
24.png Reviewer's Words
53.png Presentation Resources
39.png Geocaching Files
27.png Bookmarks
56.png Location Rules and Regs
49.png BOD Info Center

17.png Forums
16.png New Posts
20.png Unanswered Posts

calendar_day.png Upcoming Events
mapicon.png Map
29.png Calendar
11.png Submit Event

mapicon.png WGA State Park CachesNew content !

shield_star.png Cache of the Month
mapicon.png Past Winners Map

LonelyCache.png Lonely Cache Game
mapicon.png Current Map
26.png Scoreboard
11.png Submit Report

rescueiconsm.png Cache Rescue
11.png Submit a Mission

icon_community.gif Members
27.png Your Account
47.png Private Messages
contact_blue.png WGA Member Map
Geocaching_LIVE_poweredby_16.png GC.COM Authorization

icon_members.gif News
tree-T.gif Topics
tree-T.gif Archives
tree-L.gif Submit News

image_cultured.png Photo Gallery
tree-T.gif Updates
tree-L.gif Popular

shield.png Fun Stuff
28.png Recent Logs
TB.gif Picnic to Picnic TB Race Standings
TB.gif WGA Hauler

49.png Board of Directors
 
Contact Us

 
Facebook

Wisconsin Geocaching Association

 
Follow Us

Twitter Button

 
Subscribe to Newsletter

Subscribe to our mailing list

* indicates required
 
Geocaching.com Search
View Search Syntax
 
COTM
Winner -
September 2014 Northern Zone:
Bunyan's Bowling Ball

Winner -
September 2014 Northeast Zone:
Gardner Swamp Thing

Winner -
September 2014 West Central Zone:
Upper Dells SNA

Winner -
September 2014 South Central Zone:
Old Meets New

Winner -
September 2014 Southeast Zone:

Winner -
September 2014 Series of the Month:
Meet the WGA series


More Info >>>

 
 
Wisconsin Geocaching Association: Forums
 

 

View next topic
View previous topic
Post new topic   Reply to topic
Author Message
sandlanders
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-18
Posts: 19437
Location: Adams, WI

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:01 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I'm kind of in a funk, at a low point on a Saturday evening. Thinking too much about this game we all play and what it does to some people. This isn't about how everyone should play the way they want, or how it isn't life or death, and so on. Since geocaching is so unimportant in the big game of life, why do people feel the need to shortcut everything about it for some non-existent glory?

Fake logs to get souvenirs and to fill grids, drive-by finds that allow more time for bigger numbers, getting puzzle coords from someone else and not even trying the puzzle, wanting exceptions to be made on finds and challenges, not trading for swag... all sorts of actions that people in their daily lives wouldn't consider doing. Try some of these similar things on the job, in your family, or with friends, and you would be out of a job and minus family and friends, or at least in big trouble with those folks.

What makes normally good people turn to all sorts of caching shortcuts? Is that their "way of playing the game", since it's only a game? And where there are no winners or losers, are faux accomplishments a way to feel good about oneself?

None of these actions hurt me, nor do they mean the end of the world. The whole thing just makes me sad.

_________________
more posts than finds... 
View user's profile Send private message
Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6156
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Sat Sep 06, 2014 8:31 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Pat, we were just talking about this kind of thing ourselves while we were out today...caching. We have also lost some interest in a lot of the side games out there, which in some respect, have led to some of the behaviors you mention. We were up in Taylor County this afternoon, hiking a portion of the IAT there. We found a cache placed in 2004. This segment is one of the prettiest ones we've hiked on the whole IAT. The location of the cache was by a rushing stream, with remnants (very few) of an old early 20th century lumber camp. In almost 10 years, it's been found.....53 times.

We've had our ups and downs with grid filling, which is becoming far easier than it once was. Now a person can drive up and down a few roads, grab some "challenge" caches from stop signs, and there you are...well rounded. Yes, we've done some series like that. It's what has cheapened that challenge for us, too. It feels hollow to us. When we tried to get well rounded a second time, we never thought that would be something we could achieve. We also see caches get ratings changes so that someone can get their next time well rounded on those things...which affects someone else. It's all...so...silly.

We've taken the approach that we'll just go off when we feel like it, find what strikes our fancy at that moment and walk away the moment it isn't fun anymore. And if we don't feel like caching....we don't. Which happens more and more all the time in our case. We've been backing off gradually over the last couple of years and rediscovering old interests and even new ones. We don't care how everyone else chooses to play, though like you...we sometimes puzzle over these odd things. We may not even top 1000 finds by year's end, and a person can now do that in a couple days. I still hold that this is one place where there is something for everybody, which means a wide variety of folks out there enjoying the outdoors.

_________________
Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
View user's profile Send private message
labrat_wr
WGA Vice-President
WGA Vice-President



Joined: 2007-05-19
Posts: 6124
Location: The Wildside

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 4:50 am Reply with quote Back to top

it is often the "takers" which cheapen the experience. Those who just want to see their numbers climb and don't care how they do it.
IF these types would put the effort in and place a cache or two or ten (not p&g but something meant to take some time whether a hike or a well thought out puzzle) and see what it is like on the owner end of things, they may get a bit of enlightenment on what the game is about.

_________________
Operor vel Operor Non , Illic Est Haud Tendo

All forum posts are the thoughts and opinions of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the thoughts and opinions of the WGA Board of Directors 
View user's profile Send private message
sandlanders
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-18
Posts: 19437
Location: Adams, WI

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 8:35 am Reply with quote Back to top

I'm not really talking about how much easier it is to accomplish certain things in geocaching today... just why people feel the need to take shortcuts to get there. Heck, we held an event so that we could get the souvenirs from last month... but at least we attended the event! (Ended up going to another one anyway...) I have heard of others just checking out caches online that might meet the souvenir requirements... and then just armchair logging them. Why?

And as for drive-by logging... you are already at the site and may have even spotted the container... but you can't be bothered to take the time to pull out and unroll a little log sheet to get your name on it? Why? That has always been the basic rule of geocaching... sign the paper log. We know of people who just like to go out looking for caches in neat spots but never bother with online logging or numbers. Not even sure if they sign the cache logs, but then they don't claim any smilies for that anyway.

I agree with Pete that those who place caches can appreciate those who play within certain parameters, but there are still some who want the souvenir or the smiley or the date or the grid spot so bad that they find ways to get what they want with less effort... and this includes those who have placed many caches of their own.

Do we look down on cachers who didn't get the souvenirs last month? No. Do we feel superior to those who don't have as many finds as we do? No. Will an opportunity be lost forever if we don't find a cache on a certain date this year? No. Do we really have to have that little piece of swag in the container when we didn't bring anything to trade? No. Will the world come to an end if we don't fill our D/T grid? No.

I just don't get it. Maybe I should just quit reading forum posts and cache logs and not communicate with other cachers. Then I won't hear about them and wonder why good people can be less-than-compliant cachers.

_________________
more posts than finds... 
View user's profile Send private message
Todd300




Joined: 2009-06-05
Posts: 2569
Location: Menominee, MI

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 9:02 am Reply with quote Back to top

I play this hobby the way it's supposed to be.

For example, I know where the final of a puzzle cache that I still cannot solve. Do I still go out there and find it and sign the log? No, I still haven't. Until I solve the puzzle, the cache remains unfound for me. It has been for the last four years. I don't bother with the puzzle anymore.

I'm not a numbers person. I don't care about calendar grids, D/T grids or anything like that. My numbers obviously has declined the last several years. Will I even break 100 finds TOTAL for this year? Last year I found 90 caches total. I know there are people who has found that much in half a day.

This year, I have found just 26 caches all year. That amount can easily be done in a couple hours. Am I gonna fret about it? Nah. I like to play the game at my own pace.

FTF's are not important to me. The cache will still be there whether I'm first to find or the 25th to find. I'm in no hurry to find it. In my 5 years of geocaching, I've had 20 FTF's and most of those were found at least a day after publication. I know of cachers who has had more FTF's than that in a day, whether is a power trail or a run in a metropolitan area.

Every souvenir I have on my profile, I earned it, even the ones I didn't want, like the 31 days of caching last year. I only got 3 of those - lol.

If people want to cheat to fix their statistics, by all means, go ahead. I don't care. It's not like we have a leader board and are competing for a prize.

Right?
 
View user's profile Send private message
Braid Beards Gang
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-28
Posts: 5123
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 10:26 am Reply with quote Back to top

There were three men crossing a desert on their camels. They came to the top of a dune and heard a voice in the wind. One of the men asked the others to join him in searching out the voice. One of the men was angry at the suggestion, he did not want to waste the time seeking its source. The other was indifferent to the suggestion. He understood both sides of the argument. He eventually agreed to search it out.

The men found the source after a tough journey over a few dunes. It drew them to a dry riverbed. They came upon a merchant there that shared a folk tale he once heard. He said to collect as many stones from this bed as possible and you will receive a reward at your journey's end. The first man eager as ever filled all of his bags and pockets with stones. The negative one of the group did not take any stones saying it will hinder their journey and put too much burden upon them. The third grabbed a few stones thinking it could not hurt.

The three men continued their journey. The one who did not take any stones, became annoyed that the others were moving too slowly due to their worthless cargo. After a heated argument, they decided to disband and continue their journey. Of course the one that did not take any stones arrived to the town first. He was proud bragging to others, telling stories of his mates stupidity. The other two men eventually made their way to town. Upon their arrival, they realized that their stones had become gold.

I was told this story when I was 16 by a Story Teller. He told the group that there would be times in our life when we are faced with a tough choice. This story would slap us in the face and remind us to do the work, hopefully before the decision. But most likely, it will hit us on the back of the head at completion.

Every one must choose their own journey. Their reward will be reflective of their effort.

_________________
Yes I am a pirate, two hundred years too late - Jimmy Buffett 
View user's profile Send private message
AstroD-Team
WGA Member



Joined: 2004-05-19
Posts: 782

PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:28 am Reply with quote Back to top

For many of the reasons you mentioned Sandlanders, we have scaled way back on geocaching. It just isn't fun anymore as a seeker and as a cache owner.

I don't like park and grabs, I don't like challenges. I didn't get into caching to sit at a computer crunching numbers to see what I can/could accomplish just to log a stupid find in a sign post. I got into caching to go outside and discover new places and new things that were more than 10 feet from my car.

I'm getting to the point where I want to archive our caches. There just doesn't seem to be the point of this game anymore - too many seekers who feel entitled to a find, getting harassed (told to archive and re-list the cache) because we messed up cachers DT grids when we changed the ratings. I don't go to events much anymore as it feels like high school - either you are part of the "in" crowd or you don't really exist.

When it comes down to it, the geocaching community is just mirroring what has become the norm in society as a whole.

_________________
It is those whose case is weak who make the most clamour. Pier Anthony 
View user's profile Send private message
beccaday
WGA Secretary
WGA Secretary



Joined: 2010-09-22
Posts: 3950
Location: Waukesha

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:53 am Reply with quote Back to top

Wow, so much negativity in this thread! I agree, it's true, I have seen some appalling behavior in my 4.5 years geocaching. I've also seen laziness, carelessness, greed and rudeness. Last time I went out and did a maintenance run on my Dr. Seuss caches I considered giving up on hiding afterwards. I've observed all of the things that you have mentioned and it really frustrates me. BUT I've also seen so many wonderful, amazing things as well.

I've had people write long logs with pictures and they've really been a joy to see. Then later at events or on social media they've gushed as well. That makes you feel great!

I've seen people really push themselves to try new things, a tree climb, a trip out in a boat, difficult terrain or longer hikes if they wanted to fill their grid. I can think of many times when I talked to someone afterwards that said they'd never done that before and they had found that they really enjoyed the experience and looked forward to doing more. I remember many times doing these things with other people and watching people reach out a hand to help the person behind them over a difficult crossing or up a steep bank. I just love the camaraderie I've seen in the shared experience of the hunt.

I have made many friends as we've anguished over a puzzle together, sometimes one person gets one part, which leads to the next, and next, and eventually solving it. Working with small children myself and usually doing simple equations in work, I really enjoy pushing my intellect with puzzles and sharing the experience with others can be very rewarding to all involved. Again, I've talked to people who at first never even tried puzzles until they were trying to complete a challenge of some sort or another but then after they tried a few found they enjoyed it, which led to more puzzle attempts.

I've had people volunteer to do cache maintenance for me when I had pneumonia. I've had people check with me before they went out caching if they found any problems if it was OK to repair my caches first. I've been very touched as I get ready to move by all the people offering to adopt caches, do cache maintenance, come to visit me in Eau Claire, or just wish me well. It's truly made me feel special.

Long ago, before I discovered geocaching, I adopted the philosophy that I can't change how other people behave but I can control my own behavior. I guess this is a lead by example sort of approach. I feel the same way about geocaching. Yes, the things that some people do is ridiculous and it isn't for me. But I guess the point of this post is that it isn't all bad, there's many things about this game that are truly admirable and enjoyable.

_________________
Not all who wander are lost, some are geocaching.

Disclaimer: This post and the contents of any links or images attached is the opinion of this poster and not that of the WGA or its Board of Directors. 
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6156
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 10:20 am Reply with quote Back to top

BBG, I'm curious to know if you recall the storyteller's name. I know that story, though it's not one I've told myself. There are variants and I've told a couple of them.

_________________
Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
View user's profile Send private message
sandlanders
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-18
Posts: 19437
Location: Adams, WI

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:26 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Say, Becca... I just think you wrote yourself a story for the WGA newsletter. Wink

We, too, have witnessed and appreciated all the good things involved with caching. However, while we don't dwell on the bad and don't let it deter us from enjoying the game, I was just hoping that someone could enlighten me as to why good people sometimes do bad things when geocaching. Since I doubt that anyone will admit here to doing any of those less than stellar things I had mentioned in my original post, and since no psychiatrist has chimed in with a clinical take on my concerns, I guess it is just another one of those odd things that some people feel that they are entitled to do in this game that we can fit to suit our own needs.

Chris, your story hits the mark. We have carried a lot of rocks in our seven years of caching, and almost always we have seen the gold. Thanks for sharing this insight with all of us.

_________________
more posts than finds... 
View user's profile Send private message
beccaday
WGA Secretary
WGA Secretary



Joined: 2010-09-22
Posts: 3950
Location: Waukesha

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 6:45 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Well, unfortunately, I think people just do things because they can get away with it.

_________________
Not all who wander are lost, some are geocaching.

Disclaimer: This post and the contents of any links or images attached is the opinion of this poster and not that of the WGA or its Board of Directors. 
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Noonan




Joined: Aug 17, 2013
Posts: 1209
Location: Dairy, OR

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 7:59 pm Reply with quote Back to top

We have had some of my wife's logs deleted because it is merely tftc for all of them
It is all she wants me to write since I log mine first, with the story appropriate for the cache. Anything to be said is said and she is in it for the "us time".
Somebody HP2 knows out here just did something similar to some FTF logs close to our house. She was notified that the "duplicate" logs were deleted, but they were not duplicated. After a few messages back and forth to explain that we are separate people, the last message was a polite offer to call the CO. Haven't had time to do so, yet, but as they are one of the "big" cachers in KF we plan on doing so soon.
In the end , I relogged her finds and they are still there.

_________________
The best sig is no sig 
View user's profile Send private message
Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6156
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:03 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I talked to Trekkin', who has some background in what might be termed "deviant behavior." His take? Good people do these things because there ARE no consequences and it allows them to be "bad." The same people will not steal from the workplace, lie about their time card or other such things, because there ARE consequences....even though they might be tempted to do these things.

He had other comments on the topic, but that was the main one from his perspective.

_________________
Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
View user's profile Send private message
Mister Greenthumb
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-03
Posts: 2744

PostPosted: Mon Sep 08, 2014 8:19 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I don't want to steal this thread, but regardless of your opinions on this topic I can fully reassure you that a very high percentage of all of the geocachers that you know will be the people that you can count on no matter what the situation is. We haven't found a cache yet this month and probably won't until the WGA Picnic. That's a long stretch for us and something that doesn't happen very often. The friendship that we have been shown the past few days including many personal messages far exceeds the satisfaction of any cache we have ever found.
 
View user's profile Send private message
Ckayda
WGA Member



Joined: Aug 14, 2014
Posts: 25
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Tue Sep 09, 2014 6:30 am Reply with quote Back to top

I don't worry about what other people do as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else.

I do, however, think that it is an interesting question, "Why?" What is the exact nature of this hole that some seem to have in their spirits? How long has it been there and how did it come to be? How do their actions serve them? And, how conscious are they of all of this?

Most people don't act this way even knowing that they can get away with it so I suspect it's much deeper than that.
 
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:       
Post new topic   Reply to topic

View next topic
View previous topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001-2008 phpBB Group
:: Theme & Graphics by Daz :: Ported for PHP-Nuke by nukemods.com ::
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
 
Forums ©
 
Legal Notice | Privacy Policy | Terms of Use | Parental Consent Form | contact | Comments ]

All content © 2013 Wisconsin Geocaching Association, except comments and forum entries which are property of their posters.

The Groundspeak Geocaching Logo is a registered trademark of Groundspeak, Inc. Used with permission.
 


Use of this Web site constitutes acceptance of the WGA Terms of Use


Distributed by Raven PHP Scripts
New code written and maintained by the RavenNuke™ TEAM


(Original PHP-Nuke Code Copyright © 2004 by Francisco Burzi)
Page Generation: 0.11 Seconds

:: fisubice phpbb2 style by Daz :: PHP-Nuke theme by www.nukemods.com ::
:: fisubice Theme Recoded To 100% W3C CSS & HTML 4.01 Transitional & XHTML 1.0 Transitional Compliance by RavenNuke™ TEAM ::

:: W3C CSS Compliance Validation :: W3C HTML 4.01 Transitional Compliance Validation :: W3C XHTML 1.0 Transitional Compliance Validation ::