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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6079
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 6:00 am Reply with quote Back to top

The last couple months, we have had a rash of people visit some of our EarthCaches, log them, and never send us answers. We write them nice notes asking for the answers. No response. We write again. No response. We send another with a timeline to respond. We've been deleting logs way more than we'd like to do. A couple people have written back and done their best to give us some idea that they learned something, but most never write back. It's happened with a couple of our challenges, too.

This has not happened to this degree until recently. When we delete logs, we post a note to state why and also that the cacher is welcome to relog once the requirements have been met. We hope that will let lazy loggers know it won't work here.

Why is this happening with such frequency all of a sudden? Most of these folks have other EC finds and are not new to the game. Is anyone else experiencing this?

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3190
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:16 am Reply with quote Back to top

To be honest since the picture requirement was abolished I too have seen folks start to get lazy with emailing the answers.

For the most part "forgetful finders" have been providing answers when I send follow up emails.

Also discouraging are the increasingly shorter logs from finders....I have gotten several TFTC type logs recently which is depressing and not why I took the time and effort to create the listings...
 
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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 7:53 am Reply with quote Back to top

What would be nice is for the cache logging page to detect you're logging an Earthcache and remind you to answer the questions by loading the email the owner page after logging the find or prompting you to anyway.

In the era of numbers cachers and logging with phones, I'm guessing they mark it found and never look back.

If the above could also be implemented on the mobile apps that would at least prompt a majority of cachers.
 
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Lostby7
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-06-07
Posts: 3190
Location: Lake country area, WI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:19 am Reply with quote Back to top

-cheeto- wrote:

In the era of numbers cachers and logging with phones, I'm guessing they mark it found and never look back.

Something I had not considered; mobile Apps are surely shortening logs and perhaps also contributing to the problem with folks not going the extra step to contact cache owners.
 
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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6079
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:20 am Reply with quote Back to top

Shane, I suspect you're correct. And I agree, some kind of flag to help people remember would be great. It interests me that most of these people don't even respond to say, "Oops, I'm sorry." I don't know if they think we won't act on things or what.

Gary, I appreciate the nice logs too, but have learned to take them when they come as a gift and delete the tftc ones when I've checked answers. ruff and polish cutie just did our Amnicon Falls one and he had a nice log. They don't have to be sagas (although of course those are fun), but say something about what you saw or experienced or something.

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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JimandLinda
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-08-14
Posts: 5407
Location: Rosendale WI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 8:23 am Reply with quote Back to top

I think -cheeto- is close.

The difference is "field logs" versus " logging it at home". Punching in a "Found it" in the field, to some cachers, means they can move ahead without looking back.

If requirements aren't met, delete it! Your requirements had to be approved by geoaware. If they gave the nod on your EC conditions, there is no reason a cacher can't fulfill them.

The new EC in Stevens Point I did last week was very interesting. I wasn't sure if I got ALL the answers right, but it made me think and I enjoyed the area. It was worth a nice log and some pix. The other cachers that found it the same day logged "TFTC", but may have commented to the CO in the e-mail message needed for verification of the answers to the questions.

We only have 1 EC, thanks to Lostby7, and some harrassment from a Minnesota cache-monkey! I always enjoyed the photos and was disappointed when that was no longer required.

Oh, well...

T&B...if you contacted them to remedy the situation, you did more than was necessary as an EC CO. No response? Hit "Delete"!
 
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CodeJunkie
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-21
Posts: 8237
Location: Berlin, WI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:33 am Reply with quote Back to top

I agree - no info, no smiley. I know I've missed a couple of individual requirements from time to time (forgetting to write down the answer to a specific question in the field), but note this when emailing the CO and fill in the rest to the best of my ability.

If the finder isn't going to take the time to give the specifics then they don't deserve the smiley.
 
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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6079
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 9:42 am Reply with quote Back to top

The logs will get deleted, but we like to take the broad view that sometimes life happens and good intentions are set aside momentarily, thus we give some allowances for time. Despite apparent rumors to the contrary, we're amiable folks and understand mistakes are made sometimes. We sure make our share of them!

It's probably the mobile app thing at work. Our phone isn't that smart, so we don't have experience with it. I never use the field notes for logs, just to help me remember when I sit down to write them.

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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Team Deejay
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-10-02
Posts: 2398
Location: Rochester, WI, US

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:34 am Reply with quote Back to top

As reviewers, we have been discussing the recent changes regarding the type of person entering geocaching. Up until recently, people had to make a bit of a financial commitment to start playing, because they at least had to buy a GPS unit. Now, we have people starting on a whim, using a free app on a smart phone. And many of these folks haven't bothered to learn the etiquette, history, or rules of the game, so you are going to get more one word logs, unsealed containers, and, yes, noncompletion of EC/Virt requirements. Many of these folks are gone as quickly as they get started, on to the "next big thing", but they get replaced by a new set of folks with the same attitude.

By the way, you really don't want to see some of the submissions we get. Example:
Rvr: Uh, you say your cache is in a Door county park, but the location is in Lake Michigan. I noticed that you entered the coordinates as 45 00.000, 87 00.000. Did you forget to enter the minutes of the coordinates?

New hider: What do you mean, minutes?

Rvr: The last 5 digits of the coordinates. You have all zeros.

New hider: You mean we need to record the coordinates down to the minutes? That stinks...
 
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Trekkin and Birdin
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-02-08
Posts: 6079
Location: West Salem WI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 10:46 am Reply with quote Back to top

We realize that sometimes these are flash in the pan players, but many are not. Several hundred finds and at least a few other ECs. We try to allow the benefit of the doubt for them. Maybe the email went to spam, maybe they had a family emergency come up, something. When we got to our third email, the one that says, If you don't respond by such and such, we will have to delete your log, we sometimes get a response. It's just not fun having to delete logs, but we do remind them that the answers are the way of "signing" an EC log.

I would not want a reviewer's job. People get irritated enough with what kind of cache you place, where you place it, yada yada. You guys get all that multiplied by however many hundred people are submitting caches. Thanks for doing it!

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Trekkin' and Birdin'
Let's just go out and find caches and be done with it! 
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RSplash40
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-12-23
Posts: 6260

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:04 am Reply with quote Back to top

Deejay you have to be joking us...

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Accosting pine tree\'s and rendering caches harmless since 2005.... 
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ruff54
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-09-07
Posts: 110
Location: Mukwonago, WI

PostPosted: Wed Jul 06, 2011 5:42 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Trekkin and Birdin wrote:
Shane, I suspect you're correct. And I agree, some kind of flag to help people remember would be great. It interests me that most of these people don't even respond to say, "Oops, I'm sorry." I don't know if they think we won't act on things or what.

Gary, I appreciate the nice logs too, but have learned to take them when they come as a gift and delete the tftc ones when I've checked answers. ruff and polish cutie just did our Amnicon Falls one and he had a nice log. They don't have to be sagas (although of course those are fun), but say something about what you saw or experienced or something.


Awww, thanks T&B. I'm sure polish cutie's log will be good too...it just takes her longer to get around to logging. Rolling Eyes Caches like your "Amnicon Falls Meet Douglas Fault" deserve longer, better, more thoughtful logs because of the effort that was put into creating the cache and because they are quality caches. That was the best EC we've done....maybe since your Effigy Mound cache.

Back on topic, agree with the types of cachers that are coming into the game. It's a tough job, but I almost think that some problems can be alieviated by veteran, local cachers reaching out to newbies and giving them suggestions, (controlled) criticism, and praise when necessary.
 
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Team Deejay
WGA Member



Joined: 2005-10-02
Posts: 2398
Location: Rochester, WI, US

PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

RSplash40 wrote:
Deejay you have to be joking us...
I wish I was.
 
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Team Black-Cat
WGA Webmaster
WGA Webmaster



Joined: 2007-09-13
Posts: 6092
Location: Somewhere in Central WI

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:10 am Reply with quote Back to top

Team Deejay wrote:

New hider: You mean we need to record the coordinates down to the minutes? That stinks...

Why do you have to make things so difficult?
Big, mean reviewer chases away another newbie...
 
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AuntieNae
WGA Treasurer
WGA Treasurer



Joined: 2004-04-12
Posts: 3263
Location: Waukesha/ Greenfield/ Milwaukee

PostPosted: Fri Jul 08, 2011 4:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

<like>
Why do you have to make things so difficult?
Big, mean reviewer chases away another newbie...

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Finding Flow in Nature - Earthcaches Rock!Disclaimer: This post and the contents of any links or images attached is the opinion of this poster and not that of the WGA or it\'s Board of Directors. 
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