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JimandLinda
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-08-14
Posts: 5337
Location: Rosendale WI

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:58 am Reply with quote Back to top

Following the GeoPicnic at Pike Lake, the BOD discussed the presents of vendors other than the WGA in the reserved shelter area. The following motion was passed 5-3 by the BODs, and may be amended in the coming weeks.

Feel free to comment on this action, as it will help us to amend the resolution, if we decide to do so.


Whereas the Bylaws of the WGA state that our mission includes, as one of four purposes, "Provide an opportunity for geocachers in the State of Wisconsin to gather and socialize with one another."

Whereas, commercial interests may desire to make their products available to members of the WGA at our events;

Whereas, some member of the WGA may like to purchase geocaching related commercial products while at our events;

Whereas, our mission is primarily to provide a place for geocachers to socialize with one another, and unfettered and uncontrolled selling of commercial products within the shelter can potentially compromise the purpose of our event by being overpopulated with commercial interests, and some members may feel that commercial activity makes it more difficult to socialize;

The WGA from this date forward establishes these rules for the selling of commercial products at our events:

1. Vendors must get prior permission from the WGA of at least 7 days prior to the event in order to be allowed to sell commercial products at any WGA event.

2. Vendors must provide to the WGA Secretary the following information in writing prior to being approved to conducting any commercial activity: Name of individual, name of company (if any), mailing address, phone number, email address, and description of products that are intended for commercial activity.

3. Vendors must pay a fee of $25 to the WGA for the privilege of setting up their commercial activity at our event.

4. Vendors must provide their own table, booth or shelter to the extent that they see fit. The WGA is not responsible for providing any equipment to vendors.

5. Vendors must be located no closer than 50 feet from any WGA rented shelter, table or official part of the WGA event.
 
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huffinpuffin2
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-17
Posts: 2626
Location: Puffindoofer

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:43 am Reply with quote Back to top

Comments:

Enforcement could be an issue, depending on the venue. Does the WGA have a 'lease' on the property during the event? Will there be an 'enforcer' position created on the BOD, or will contractors be used.

What constitutes a 'vendor'? If one WGA member attends and decides to sell something to another WGA member, 1:1, do they need to 'take it out back'? Not talking about puzzle-solves, of course............

Smile Smile
 
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Team Black-Cat
WGA Webmaster
WGA Webmaster



Joined: 2007-09-13
Posts: 6082
Location: Somewhere in Central WI

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:17 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I don't see the point of making the policy all encompassing and water-tight. It's really simple. If somone wants to set up a table and sell something, they need prior permission.
One on one sales are not more than welcome.
If you're walking around selling a bunch of stuff out of your pockets, we'll probably ask you to stop.
I don't think we need to get Clint involved. We should be able to handle any enforcement issues...

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amita17
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-11-02
Posts: 676
Location: Menasha, WI

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:57 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I am not sure how/if it should be included in bylaws, but those setting up the events would know anyway, if a vendor was a direct competitor that we would avoid allowing that (ex. like having other food vendors at our chili event). Also that a vendor would have a stationary place to sell, not be following people around pestering them to purchase something. But on the opposite side, if people attending could know about such vendors in advance so we could be prepared to purchase. (ex. I recently attended a training where we were told all our expenses had been paid--which they had--but they failed to inform us that there would be a vendor area, and I found many books there I might have liked to buy if only I had known to bring enough money.)

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WStemple
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-06-23
Posts: 508
Location: Out on the trails.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 2:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I can well see the BOD's view. Vendors can take up valuable space that was intended for people to be able to sit and just talk. Take for example the limited space at Pike Lake. If I recall correctly, there was a table for the container contest, one for the race, two for registration, plus the space taken up for the cakes and food, etc. That was all WGA official space and the space that was left was probably planned as "open" space for the cachers to socialize.

When you introduce vendors into that space, it does not leave much for the members. I would suggest that if we were to allow vendors into these events, that it be handle like West Bend. That is to say that they are given there own space that is aways from the "main" space so that it does not intrude on the social aspect of the event. Many of them probably have thier own tents, etc., so that should not be an issue to them.
 
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Team Black-Cat
WGA Webmaster
WGA Webmaster



Joined: 2007-09-13
Posts: 6082
Location: Somewhere in Central WI

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:36 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Correction:
I didn't mean to say that one on one sales are not welcome. I meant to say that one on one sales ARE welcome.

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billrwilson
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-11-22
Posts: 112
Location: West Bend Wi

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:46 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The reason why i like the WGA events better then any other is because ITS NOT COMMERCIALIZED. Other events in my area have turned into just a big commercial for the town(in my opinion). Stick with selling only WGA stuff so we can have more WGA events. Keep it about wisconsin geocaching, good friend, socializing with our geostories. WGA members should be able to sell each other things they have made or have that others may want at our events. like a WGA swap meet. maybe we caould call it the WGA Picnic and Swap Meet.
 
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Team Black-Cat
WGA Webmaster
WGA Webmaster



Joined: 2007-09-13
Posts: 6082
Location: Somewhere in Central WI

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:56 pm Reply with quote Back to top

The reason for this motion wasn't because there is currently a problem. The motion was made to avoid problems in the future. It's not our intention to ban vendors, or to make it unreasonably difficult to sell merchandise at WGA events.

Available space is one of the main concerns. Another concern is not allowing our events to turn into unregulated, free-for-all flea markets.

Some of the discussions we have had so far include making the fee percentage of sales based and adding an option to allow the BOD to waive the fee in some circumstances. Another item discussed is changeing the last line to allow a little more lattitude with wording similar to "Venders will only be allowed to set up in designated areas".

I don't think this will be included in the by-laws. We just need to write a policy and make sure it is available to anyone that wants to read it.

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Braid Beards Gang
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-07-28
Posts: 5009
Location: Milwaukee, WI

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 5:44 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Interesting issue.

I think that we may be discussing the presence, not presents of vendors. I like both presents from vendors and the presence of vendors at events. This ends the grammar police portion of my statement.

I understand the limited availability of real estate inside these pavilions. I just think that the 50 foot rule/guideline could be an issue. In my opinion, it would be confusing for a vendor to pay for a table at an event then be told they had to stay a distance away from the event pavilion. They could probably legally set up 50 feet away in a public park without paying the WGA.

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WStemple
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-06-23
Posts: 508
Location: Out on the trails.

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:52 pm Reply with quote Back to top

At Ca$h Ba$h, there is an obvious designated area for vendors that is well over 50 feet away from the main area. I do agree that changing it to a designated area would give more latitude to "tune it" in the future with a need to change the wording.
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:07 am Reply with quote Back to top

WStemple wrote:
I can well see the BOD's view. Vendors can take up valuable space that was intended for people to be able to sit and just talk. Take for example the limited space at Pike Lake. If I recall correctly, there was a table for the container contest, one for the race, two for registration, plus the space taken up for the cakes and food, etc. That was all WGA official space and the space that was left was probably planned as "open" space for the cachers to socialize.

When you introduce vendors into that space, it does not leave much for the members. I would suggest that if we were to allow vendors into these events, that it be handle like West Bend. That is to say that they are given there own space that is aways from the "main" space so that it does not intrude on the social aspect of the event. Many of them probably have thier own tents, etc., so that should not be an issue to them.



You are correct on all counts. The primary purpose of WGA events is to promote social interaction between Wisconsin's geocachers.

The issue at Pike was that several people were turning the shelter into a flea market by setting up tables right in the shelter, which some people did not like, and some felt this limited social interaction.

If vendors want to sell things at WGA events, it is going to have to be controlled and contained so that it does not compromise our main mission, which is to promote social interaction. That was the idea behind moving vendors out of the shelter, and 50 feet away from the main shelter.

z

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All posts are the opinions of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the WGA Board of Directors. 
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cheezehead
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-07-02
Posts: 6063
Location: Hayward, WI. USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 8:32 am Reply with quote Back to top

How do you enforce this if it's a public facility? Ya the WGA is leasing the use of the shelter. I would have just as much a right sitting at a picnic table that's 25 away from the shelter and selling ice cream bars out of a cooler if I wanted to. If little Sue want's to sell homemade Geo-buttons for a $1 so she can donate the money to the local animal shelter, are ya gonna charge her $25 or kick her out?
 
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GeoBill
WGA Member



Joined: 2009-03-17
Posts: 43
Location: Oakfield, WI

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 9:38 am Reply with quote Back to top

Just a few thoughts as a vendor at some events. I prefer the percentage of sales fee. Most of the time this will result in more money for WGA and if sales are not good at a certain event it is an incentive to vendors to attend anyway as there are always some people looking for supplies. We also tend to donate more items to organizers at the percent based fee events. Many of our products are approved by Groundspeak for us to sell so we have to meet a certain quality level. This idea seems like it would be a good way for WGA to raise some extra funds for continuing a no membership fee Association.
The Searchers
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:03 am Reply with quote Back to top

cheezehead wrote:
How do you enforce this if it's a public facility? Ya the WGA is leasing the use of the shelter. I would have just as much a right sitting at a picnic table that's 25 away from the shelter and selling ice cream bars out of a cooler if I wanted to. If little Sue want's to sell homemade Geo-buttons for a $1 so she can donate the money to the local animal shelter, are ya gonna charge her $25 or kick her out?


good questions, but I do not think enforcement is really much of an issue. The vast majority of people will do the decent and honorable thing with just a little guidance. So in the case that you cite, little Sue would most likely just follow the rules without making a big deal of it.

So, not really a big deal on enforcement, but it is a good question.

z

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All posts are the opinions of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the WGA Board of Directors. 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 10:09 am Reply with quote Back to top

GeoBill wrote:
Just a few thoughts as a vendor at some events. I prefer the percentage of sales fee. Most of the time this will result in more money for WGA and if sales are not good at a certain event it is an incentive to vendors to attend anyway as there are always some people looking for supplies. We also tend to donate more items to organizers at the percent based fee events. Many of our products are approved by Groundspeak for us to sell so we have to meet a certain quality level. This idea seems like it would be a good way for WGA to raise some extra funds for continuing a no membership fee Association.
The Searchers


good idea on the percentage, and we may adopt this in the future since it is probably more fair. But the $25 fee is not there to make the WGA money, and we have enough funds that we do not have to try to make money off of vendors. We may even consider lowering the fee in the future. But we thought a fee of a nominal amount was needed to help control the ad hoc and random nature of vendors just appearing at events unannounced.

None of the many vendors at Pike had sought approval from anyone to sell their products in the shelter, and the ad hoc appearance of a flea market at future events seems to me to need to be controlled by potential sellers getting prior permission to sell at the events, and paying a small nominal fee.

z

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All posts are the opinions of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the WGA Board of Directors. 
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