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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:34 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Just a nit pick. Offering for sale at events is an "equal opportunity to purchase". One chooses whether to go to an event. An unequal opportunity would be only selling to certain groups or members. If you wanted a coin you knew where to get one. They've never sold out in a single event either.

Opportunity is equal. Ease of obtaining is not.

One could look at it as an incentive to attend a WGA event. One could look at it as a way of making them more desirable. (especially to the coiner world) One could look at it as fostering networking.

I guess what I'm saying is its a nice offering to sell online but there are many things involved in a decision. Cost and labor are also at play. As well as the non profit status of the group.

I trust that the board will make the best decision given all the variables.

I think a more important argument for an online sale is that's it's been awhile since one has been done and it helps advertise the group.
 
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cheezehead
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-07-02
Posts: 6063
Location: Hayward, WI. USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:08 pm Reply with quote Back to top

-cheeto- wrote:
Just a nit pick. Offering for sale at events is an "equal opportunity to purchase". One chooses whether to go to an event. An unequal opportunity would be only selling to certain groups or members. If you wanted a coin you knew where to get one. They've never sold out in a single event either.

Opportunity is equal. Ease of obtaining is not.

One could look at it as an incentive to attend a WGA event. One could look at it as a way of making them more desirable. (especially to the coiner world) One could look at it as fostering networking.

I guess what I'm saying is its a nice offering to sell online but there are many things involved in a decision. Cost and labor are also at play. As well as the non profit status of the group.

I trust that the board will make the best decision given all the variables.

I think a more important argument for an online sale is that's it's been awhile since one has been done and it helps advertise the group.

I beg to differ. It is not equal when one lives more than 3hrs away, gas is +$4 a gallon and you have to work weekends. So if I would want to by a coin, itn would cost me 2 days pay, over $100 in gas plus around another $100 in misc. stuff for me to pick up a $20 coin. Ya that's equal opportunity right there. Makes me want to support.
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:37 pm Reply with quote Back to top

cheezehead wrote:
-cheeto- wrote:
Just a nit pick. Offering for sale at events is an "equal opportunity to purchase". One chooses whether to go to an event. An unequal opportunity would be only selling to certain groups or members. If you wanted a coin you knew where to get one. They've never sold out in a single event either.

Opportunity is equal. Ease of obtaining is not.

One could look at it as an incentive to attend a WGA event. One could look at it as a way of making them more desirable. (especially to the coiner world) One could look at it as fostering networking.

I guess what I'm saying is its a nice offering to sell online but there are many things involved in a decision. Cost and labor are also at play. As well as the non profit status of the group.

I trust that the board will make the best decision given all the variables.

I think a more important argument for an online sale is that's it's been awhile since one has been done and it helps advertise the group.

I beg to differ. It is not equal when one lives more than 3hrs away, gas is +$4 a gallon and you have to work weekends. So if I would want to by a coin, itn would cost me 2 days pay, over $100 in gas plus around another $100 in misc. stuff for me to pick up a $20 coin. Ya that's equal opportunity right there. Makes me want to support.


I am not against doing an online sales, and hate to nitpick. But I personally brought a supply of geocoins to your event in Hayward where they were available to buy at the same price as everywhere else. I do not recall anyone paying for my gas to drive to Hayward, or even a thank you for the effort.

z

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Keep On Cachin In The Free World.

All posts are the opinions of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the WGA Board of Directors. 
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cheezehead
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-07-02
Posts: 6063
Location: Hayward, WI. USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 1:43 pm Reply with quote Back to top

DO NOT GET ME STARTED RALPH. I will give my comment after I get back from work.
 
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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 3:16 pm Reply with quote Back to top

I stand by my comments and understand your criticism and opinion.

This is one example of why I'm not interested in making these types of calls anymore.

There's also a donation button somewhere on here to show your support from where you are sitting right now.

And you missed my comment on networking.

I'll let the current board navigate these waters once again. Can't always please everyone. History tells us you'll have an online sale and then you'll get complaints that someone didn't know the sale was going on. More unequal opportunity right?

Some great design submissions this year!! That coin committee sure has its work cut out for them!
 
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AuntieNae
WGA Treasurer
WGA Treasurer



Joined: 2004-04-12
Posts: 3265
Location: Waukesha/ Greenfield/ Milwaukee

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 4:24 pm Reply with quote Back to top

2011 Geocoins are still available for sale .. and should will be available at the upcoming CITO event this Saturday ..

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sandlanders
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-18
Posts: 19427
Location: Adams, WI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:49 pm Reply with quote Back to top

-cheeto- wrote:
I guess what I'm saying is its a nice offering to sell online but there are many things involved in a decision. Cost and labor are also at play. As well as the non profit status of the group.

Having chosen not to run for the BOD, I am not aware of exactly how cost, labor, and non-profit status affect the price and method of dispersal of the geocoins. I would think that the WGA, as with anyone selling a product, would like to get their product out to as many people as possible.

There are many instances where I could drive to a brick and mortar store to pick up something, but since we live many miles from most of these, I find that online ordering and having my purchases shipped to me is much preferable to that. Even if someone was going in that direction and could pick up something for me, there are still the logistics of making connections for the payment and transfer of goods. The time involved in this would be longer, too.

If time and cost are too much for me to purchase something, I don't purchase it. That is why most businesses (and I realize that the WGA is not a business, but some parallels can be seen in this example) are now offering online sales of their goods.

Those who know us know that we travel all over the state to attend events. We go to see the area, we go to have fun, and we go mostly to visit with other cachers. We choose the events that we go to based on our schedule, the time we have for the traveling, the weather, and who we might be seeing at the events. We have not, nor will we ever, go to a WGA event just to purchase a geocoin.

-cheeto- wrote:
I think a more important argument for an online sale is that's it's been awhile since one has been done and it helps advertise the group.

This is not the case. We joined the WGA four years ago. In late 2008 we purchased two of the cow geocoins online and had them sent to us (we had paid postage). Everyone was talking in the forums about when their coins came in the mail and how cool it was, etc.

There was not a coin in 2009.

In 2010 we purchased two of the sate-shaped geocoins online (again we paid postage), and those arrived in time for WGA BOD members to bring them to the fall picnic. We were given ours because we were known to those charged with distribution. Others who were not recognized were told that their coins would be mailed to them. We did not receive any refund of the postage that we had paid for, nor did we ask for that. I do not remember if any coins were sold on site at the picnic.

In 2011, the round copper coin was offered online, but there was no postage charged, nor was mailing out the coins an option. All coins needed to be picked up at the fall picnic in person or by a representative for personal delivery. I am aware of very few people who ordered coins who did not plan to be at the picnic. I do not know about those who made arrangements ahead of time for any friends/family to pick up their coins.

Perhaps I am nitpicking about what exactly constitutes an online sale. What I am thinking of is this: show the final coin design here, take orders here based on that, charge postage, send out all of those orders when the coins are ready (this is where I have offered my services), and sell extras at all future WGA events until they run out.

And adding to the nitpicking... Having the coins ready in time for the West Bend Cash Bash implies that those attending that event will have the first opportunity to buy the 2012 coins. The Cash Bash is not a WGA event. The pancake breakfast, yes, but not the Cash Bash itself.

I will order this year's geocoin no matter what, but I will not be able to go to West Bend to pick up my order. If coins will not be mailed to those who order them, I will arrange to have someone pick up my coin(s) at West Bend. I will not wait to purchase any geocoins in person when I am able to attend a later event in case they are all sold out at West Bend. Just because the coins have never sold out at an event does not mean that they will never sell out at an event.

I understand everyone's concerns, and I respect the knowledge and experience of the BOD members who deal with such things. All I am asking is that the concerns of the WGA members, your constituency, be considered in your decision-making on this.
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:00 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Team Black-Cat wrote:
There will most likely be an online SALE, but not necessarily a PREsale.


Pat, I think you must have missed this post by TBC. The board has not voted on doing online sales yet, but I dont see any opposition to doing it, so it is probably going to happen. There are a lot of good reasons to do it, and not much downside.

Thanks for volunteering to help with the process.

z

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All posts are the opinions of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the WGA Board of Directors. 
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sandlanders
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-18
Posts: 19427
Location: Adams, WI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:15 pm Reply with quote Back to top

No, I didn't miss that post. Sale or presale is not the point. For that, I just meant sell online before selling at any event. Mailing out the coins to people instead of having them attend an event to get their coins or having someone pick up their coins for them is.

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JimandLinda
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-08-14
Posts: 5454
Location: Rosendale WI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:47 pm Reply with quote Back to top

FYI... the WBCB readiness has to do with out-of-state cachers, and the past history of them wanting to purchase things with the word "Wisconsin" on it. This will also be an anniversary coin, so we are hopefully minting one with a unique shape and eye appeal.

The WBCB readiness has NOTHING to do with WGA members getting their coins. They are completely seperate issues.
Although we are non-profit, we also try to be non-net-loss. The Association has expenses, but we try to pass on some member perks, like $3 pork roasts!

I agree with online sales. We have a store and it should provide a service to the entire membership.
 
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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 8:58 pm Reply with quote Back to top

sandlanders wrote:

In 2011, the round copper coin was offered online, but there was no postage charged, nor was mailing out the coins an option. All coins needed to be picked up at the fall picnic in person or by a representative for personal delivery.
Perhaps I am nitpicking about what exactly constitutes an online sale..


Online sale = sell online and ship to the purchaser. That's what I thought you meant as well. Since that was not done last year, yes it has been awhile.

I agree that it would be nice for WGA members to get first "dibs" at buying the coins the group produces.
 
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-cheeto-
WGA Member



Joined: 2007-06-12
Posts: 4538
Location: Appleton, WI

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 9:03 pm Reply with quote Back to top

Quote:
What I am thinking of is this: show the final coin design here, take orders here based on that, charge postage, send out all of those orders when the coins are ready (this is where I have offered my services), and sell extras at all future WGA events until they run out.


Nevermind
 
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cheezehead
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-07-02
Posts: 6063
Location: Hayward, WI. USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:33 pm Reply with quote Back to top

zuma wrote:

I am not against doing an online sales, and hate to nitpick. But I personally brought a supply of geocoins to your event in Hayward where they were available to buy at the same price as everywhere else. I do not recall anyone paying for my gas to drive to Hayward, or even a thank you for the effort.

z

OK Ralph, You brought the 2010 coin, not the 2011. You never mentioned that you would have any coins for sale and I thought coins were sold only at WGA Events. This was a NOT a WGA Event. I was showing my 2010 coin to someone and you said you had some in your car. Now I'm pretty sure Monty thanked you as he said his wife was was really going to like it.

Now I know how hard it is for you to travel to this part of that state, but yet you can drive to Iowa, Illinois. Michigan and Minnesota and maybe even Nebraska and Indiana to collect 5/5's.

So here's what I'll do. So when the final price is set. Figure out just how much it will cost to send me 25-30 coins. Then add $1 per coin for handling. You can keep the handling fee. Put it towards the gas and your time to drop it off at the Post Office

I will act as the WGA coin Representative for Northwest Wisconsin.
I will then do my best to try to sell them to my fellow geocachers from this part of the state who will not be able to attend the Camp Out and maybe even a few Mud Ducks from the Duluth Area.

Heck send me as many as you want, with Shipping data base, envelopes and address tags, and I'll send as many as I can out.

And just how much money does the WGA have and what do it spend it's money on?

One other thing, do you remember the suggestion I made about the BOD Elections?? Let me refresh your memory. My suggestion was maybe the WGA Officers should be an elected position. Meaning if you want to be the Prez, you have to run to be the Prez, if you want to be Vice Pres, Sec. or Treas., you have to run for those offices. After all what is the duties of the Positions? Are they stated in the By Laws? It's been ten years. Lots of thing have changed and grown in ten years.

I be waiting for the "Zuma has Spoken Comment" and that will be the end of any further discussion I'm sure cuz one either has to think like Zuma, or they are wrong.
 
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zuma
WGA Member



Joined: 2006-01-30
Posts: 5559
Location: Eau Claire

PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 11:50 pm Reply with quote Back to top

cheezehead wrote:
zuma wrote:

I am not against doing an online sales, and hate to nitpick. But I personally brought a supply of geocoins to your event in Hayward where they were available to buy at the same price as everywhere else. I do not recall anyone paying for my gas to drive to Hayward, or even a thank you for the effort.

z

OK Ralph, You brought the 2010 coin, not the 2011. You never mentioned that you would have any coins for sale and I thought coins were sold only at WGA Events. This was a NOT a WGA Event. I was showing my 2010 coin to someone and you said you had some in your car. Now I'm pretty sure Monty thanked you as he said his wife was was really going to like it.

Now I know how hard it is for you to travel to this part of that state, but yet you can drive to Iowa, Illinois. Michigan and Minnesota and maybe even Nebraska and Indiana to collect 5/5's.

So here's what I'll do. So when the final price is set. Figure out just how much it will cost to send me 25-30 coins. Then add $1 per coin for handling. You can keep the handling fee. Put it towards the gas and your time to drop it off at the Post Office

I will act as the WGA coin Representative for Northwest Wisconsin.
I will then do my best to try to sell them to my fellow geocachers from this part of the state who will not be able to attend the Camp Out and maybe even a few Mud Ducks from the Duluth Area.

Heck send me as many as you want, with Shipping data base, envelopes and address tags, and I'll send as many as I can out.

And just how much money does the WGA have and what do it spend it's money on?

One other thing, do you remember the suggestion I made about the BOD Elections?? Let me refresh your memory. My suggestion was maybe the WGA Officers should be an elected position. Meaning if you want to be the Prez, you have to run to be the Prez, if you want to be Vice Pres, Sec. or Treas., you have to run for those offices. After all what is the duties of the Positions? Are they stated in the By Laws? It's been ten years. Lots of thing have changed and grown in ten years.

I be waiting for the "Zuma has Spoken Comment" and that will be the end of any further discussion I'm sure cuz one either has to think like Zuma, or they are wrong.


I cannot say that I understand your need to make a lengthy rambling personal attack. This thread is to discuss the new geocoin, not to attack me, despite the fact that I have done what I can to get coins to you, including driving them to Hayward.

I volunteer my time to serve on the board, and really do not feel that my efforts merit being attacked.

Z

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All posts are the opinions of the poster and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of the WGA Board of Directors. 
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thepharmgirl
WGA Member



Joined: 2008-01-14
Posts: 275
Location: West Bend, WI

PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 1:09 am Reply with quote Back to top

I would think that the decision to provide online sales would depend, in part, whether a board member is willing to take charge and volunteer a large amount of personal time in setting it up, obtaining the necessary supplies, and then organizing and mailing out the orders. It's a great way to reach members across the state who are unable or uninterested in attending a specific event and you'd sell a lot more, but it is probably a lot more work than we think. Mailing it out to one person is no burden, but a couple hundred orders would get tedious I imagine.

"Some people want it to happen, some wish it to happen, others make it happen."
- Anonymous

"Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare."
- Japanese Proverb
 
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